Anyways, if it’s not too much trouble /too personal, can we see this philosophical discord? Would love to discuss these kinds of morality questions.

Okay, so I asked the owner of the server – technically known as flopside, but everyone calls it altgen – if it was okay, and I got the go-ahead.

Here are some things to note, though:

  • Altgen is a spinoff from @loreweaver-universe​‘s Discord server, though it has established itself as more of its own thing at this point. As a result, it is closely tied to the Discord liveblogging supercommunity and has multiple livebloggers frequenting it, meaning spoilers for certain things need to be handled with care (most notably Worm, Ward, Steven Universe, Madoka Magica, Wander Over Yonder, Rick and Morty, Camp Camp, My Hero Academia, Adventure Time and Little Witch Academia). There is a channel called #altspoil, which can be used to contain content that is spoilery to one or more of the local livebloggers, myself included.
  • It’s not exclusively a philosophy server. That’s just one of the channels. Altgen, more broadly, is for chill and civil discussion of certain topics that are not allowed on the regular liveblogger servers, such as serious news, politics, religion and NSFW content. And yes, that last thing does mean there are porn channels, though they are manually age-gated. There’s even #spoilporn, where your filthiest, most spoilery Alexandria porn is safe from my innocent gaze.
  • I’ve limited the invite below to 25 uses, just to be safe in case this post winds up in the wrong places. I doubt those are all going to be used up by you guys anytime soon, but if that happens, feel free to let me know and I might make a new one.
  • Please do not join just to talk about Worm with me directly. There are reasons I don’t have a Discord server of my own (I prefer to have all my Worm talk screened and visible on the blog, among other things), and I don’t want that to get taken out on other servers I’m in.
  • I’ve said a lot here, but seriously… We’re chill, I promise.

With all that said, here’s the link! Welcome!

How do you think Taylor will react to what Amy did to Victoria, New Wave or the other Undersiders(We somewhat saw Lisa’s reaction)? And what do you think would be a fair punishment? There are Heartbreaker and Canary as contrast, we saw the Trial and the Birdcage, but also know her mitigating circumstances. What would be reasonable and what do you think will likely happen?

I think it depends a lot on how they find out, but I think when she has the full story including Amy’s POV, Taylor may be conflicted but I don’t think she’d be too hard on Amy for it.

New Wave might already know. Judging by her behavior when she came across Amy in public, I don’t think Victoria cares if people find out they’ve had a falling-out, and from there it’s not a long way to questions about why. Also, their parents would want to know why Victoria didn’t bring Amy home, though Victoria could’ve just lied and said she couldn’t find her, or that Amy refused to come back because she didn’t want to put the rest of them at risk of Bonesaw. In short, though, I think there’s a good chance Victoria told her parents what Amy did. Their reactions would be shaped by that perspective, although I suspect Flashbang is giving Amy some benefit of the doubt.

Among the Undersiders, besides Taylor, the only one whose reaction I’m really interested in is Alec, because as you say, this is comparable to Heartbreaker. However, Alec isn’t exactly much for big reactions, even (or maybe especially) to these things. If he started a liveblog of reaction video channel, I’d probably drop it fairly quickly.

As for punishment, I don’t think Amy deserves any. Even less so than Paige. At least with Paige, there was an argument to be made for carelessness, but with Amy, there are so many more mitigating circumstances. She was heavily compromised, and her personal space was violated in a way she had warned Victoria against repeatedly. It was an accident that she was actively trying to prevent. She’s no more responsible than the people who take care of a natural sightseeing spot are for tourists that fall off cliffs because they ignore warning signs and cross safety fences. Less so, even.

(Fun fact: There are such spots in Norway that don’t have fences because some tourists are more likely to go too close to the edge of a cliff when there’s a fence in their way.)

I’d argue that, fundamentally, Tattletale isn’t a bad person, she is someone being held at gunpoint, who’s only real weapon when cornered is digging into people’s psyche for their own problems. Would Amy have done the same thing if Tattletale hadn’t brought that up? Maybe, maybe she would. It wouldn’t change the fact that their family is still fucked up and needs some therapy, and that, as well as Amy’s listlessness with her powers, probably contributed significantly. Tats is still mean, though.

I certainly don’t think Lisa is anywhere near as responsible for these things as Amy thinks. I mean, sure, Lisa’s been known to mess with people’s heads, but ultimately all she did was remind Lisa of the potential for her secrets to come out and mess things up. Then Amy went through a lot of stress because of Leviathan and her dad and Gallant and Bonesaw and Mannequin and Siberian and… you get the point. I think Lisa is for the most part a scapegoat for Amy’s stress, even if Amy doesn’t realize it.

Yeah, it was a dick move on Lisa’s part, but not much more than you’d expect during a confrontation between hero and villain. Hell, Amy herself said some really mean things during that confrontation, too.

Worm is officially subtitled “Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons” which while close isn’t exactly the same as “the road to hell is paved with good intentions" 

Sharks: (I don’t actually know if it’s official.)

Ah, yeah, that also sounds quite applicable to… actually, not just Taylor’s story. A lot of characters’ stories.

Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons also comes up sometimes.

I think regarding being friends with bad persons, way more interesting than Tattletale is Regent, who is a rapist and murderer but tries to be a better person with varying success due being emotionally dead inside. Taylor herself thought about that in 14.1 … for like 5 seconds. What is your opinion?

While I don’t mean to excuse his past actions, I think it counts for a lot if he actually wants to and tries to be better. Intent matters, and if he intends to be better and does what he can to follow through on that, that’s a good thing. It doesn’t erase his past actions, and it’s very unfortunate how blasé he is about them, but it does make him much more sympathetic than he would otherwise be.

Also, the point about this topic having already come up earlier in the Arc is a good one. Now that that’s been pointed out, I think we might have an Arc theme going here, and I suspect it’s going to come up again when we learn about the Travelers and the 325.

Concerning the Ask about Siberian vs Alexandria vs Leviathan: Alexandria wrestling Leviathan was not the only easily missed moment of awesome, aside from Taylor literally ripping Leviathan a new one. There is Clockblocker coming near enough to an Endbringer to freeze it, especially with normal human squishiness while capes are dying left right and center … and of course Vista, who effortlessly drops an entire skyscraper on Levi. She is ridiculously powerful when not holding back

Yeah, those were all pretty damn awesome! Brockton Bay has some really cool people around.

If Amy decided to join the Undersiders, and thus become a villain, what do you think her cape name would be?

Hm, right, I suppose she would probably distance herself from “Panacea”.

How about… Plague? Or maybe the name of a different health-related goddess, perhaps one with a less positive angle on it?

Also, it just occurred to me that Amy would need to fit into the Undersiders’ theme of common fears. I do suppose you could make a case for disease or big biological changes as something people are afraid of, though.

That take on Panacea’s theme is good, but what if her song was like a rock love ballad called Victoria, crying to Vicky for help, super depressed downer lyrics, lines like “This can’t be the end of the story, girl/I got no guts and no glory, girl”

Hmm. Sounds more like a theme for the ship than the character, but could work. I do really like that last line!

Did you make this up now, or is this an actual fansong?

Taylor and Amy Team-Ups are somewhat common in fanfics, especially with Amy/Taylor shipping and Amy the fan-woobie (sad and lonely with a friendly personality just under the surface instead of rude and abrasive with an extremely black-and-white view of the world). Nevertheless the synergy between a biokinetic and a bug-controller is ridiculous: Bugs which inject tranquilizer(often enough for even lung), poisons and other stuff, flying web spinners, modified spider silk, range extenders, etc…

Image if Amy really cut loose in helping Skitter: Zerg Army

Yeah, they’d be a damn fantastic team.

After pressing the villainous father point, Tattletale brought up something worse she didn’t go into detail about, which Panacea desperately intervened to stop her from talking about.

I figured that was about Amy’s attraction to Victoria. Especially because Lisa’s taunting turned out right – the revealing of that secret (along with Amy’s accidental use of her power) did break up the family.

I suppose it is possible there’s another secret, involving something that can more undeniably be referred to as betraying her family than Amy using her power on Victoria and running away.